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The Other Manuscript:

What To Do About It!

Following is a transcript of an interview with Father Nicholas Gruner by Coralie Graham, Editor of The Fatima Crusader. For ease of reading, the interviewer’s questions are in italics. Father Gruner’s responses are in regular type.


[Fatima Crusader Editor] Have you read Andrew Cesanek’s article Are There Two Original Manuscripts on the Third Secret? proving that Sister Lucy wrote two manuscripts that give the Third Secret of Fatima?

[Father Gruner] Yes.

Would you suggest then that Cardinal Ratzinger and Archbishop Bertone are lying when they tell us there is only one manuscript?

No. Not at all. If they tell us that there is only one manuscript, then indeed, there must be only one. The operative word is “is”. As of June 26, 2000 there appears to exist only one original manuscript. The letter of one page which has been kept meticulously, carefully and under special lock and key for at least 40 years (the last time someone said they saw it was Cardinal Ratzinger in 1984), could, in all the hustle and bustle in the Vatican after that time, have been made to disappear by enemies of the Church.

We know that security at the Vatican has had its problems. That is obvious with the shooting deaths of the two Swiss guards on May 4, 1998. So I believe them when they tell us today there is only one manuscript. Or otherwise they could be simply in error. That is, they have both been told by someone who should know, that it is gone. But perhaps the additional text really still exists and is hidden or lost somewhere they have not thought to look yet.

How, then, does all the research into the 3rd Secret help the world today if, in fact, there were two documents written by Sister Lucy in January 1944 containing the Third Secret but now today there is only one document remaining?

It first of all helps everyone to understand that, although a document is missing, at least hundreds of thousands of people all over the world can know that we are not all collectively crazy when we conclude that there must be something more. It also makes clear some very practical courses of action that can be taken to resolve the issue much further.

What courses of action do you suggest?

Well the first thing is not to react by blaming Cardinal Ratzinger, Archbishop Bertone or anyone else, especially not Pope John Paul II. We must remember that it is only due to Pope John Paul II’s persistence in the face of obvious bureaucratic opposition that even this one document came to light after 40 years of being buried.

“Pray, Pray for the Holy Father”

What other course of action do you suggest?

We should especially pray for Pope John Paul II at this difficult time because the prophesy is very clear. It is clear, as Sister Lucy herself said in her 1982 letter to the Pope, the 3rd Secret is a prediction of future events revealed by God Himself — events which had not yet come to pass as of 1982. This prediction has both a literal and an allegorical meaning, as does apocalyptic literature in general. Here I must disagree with Cardinal Ratzinger, who seems to place apocalyptic texts entirely in the realm of the allegorical, while at the same time (and somewhat self-contradictorily) asserting that the Third Secret vision does describe a literal historical event, but one that has already happened. In the Third Secret vision, the children could see a future tragedy for the Pope, the dramatic and terrible ruin of the City of God, which is the Church, and ultimately the utter tragedy of disaster for an unrepentant world as represented by the angel inflicting the just punishment of God on unbelieving, unrepentant mankind, which has ceased to pray or do penance.

Only Our Lady can prevent this disaster from falling upon mankind by Her intercession. But if people do not know to invoke Her help, or worse still, if they have a hatred or an aversion to Our Lady because of the heresies they have been taught against Her, then these people will be without help when they most need it, particularly if the enemy has first of all killed the priests and men and women religious who can teach them the importance, the beauty and the necessity of invoking Our Lady at this time of great peril in human history, when all of humanity is threatened rightly by Divine chastisements.

Danger Greater Today!

Why do you say that the peril is great, especially now?

Because it is clear to almost everyone I have talked to — not just people like Monsignor Balducci or Marco Politi, but to nearly everyone who can read and think for himself - that the prediction foretold in the vision of the Third Secret does not fit the 1981 assassination attempt, but rather this prophesy has not yet been realized. And that is also clear from Sister Lucy’s letter to the Pope on May 12, 1982.

Sister Lucy clearly states that if mankind does not turn away from the path of sin (it clearly has not), then in a short while we shall make large strides towards seeing the fulfillment of that prophesy. In 1982, Sister Lucy clearly said we would be making great strides towards the chastisement unless mankind repented and went back to the laws of God. Today, 18 years later, neither Russia, the West, nor anywhere else in the world has turned back to God. With the rise of abortion, with the making of unnatural vice as a legal right, with the increase of pornography and prostitution, etc., we all know that sin in the world has only deepened dramatically in every way since 1982. The path is downward, not upward.

Clearly, the danger is greater today than ever. So we must listen to the Pope when he said on May 13, 1982, “the Message of Fatima is more relevant and more urgent than when Our Lady first appeared 65 years ago.” That the Message “imposes an obligation on her (the Church)” and that the Message “is addressed to every human being.”

Prayer, Sacrifice and Penance

What else do you suggest in the light of all this?

Well before I go on, I must make it explicitly clear that we all should pray the Rosary every day. All of us Catholics especially, but even non-Catholics. It will protect us from the threatened punishment the Angel of God menaces all mankind with because there is so much sin today.

Also, we must wear the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, as clearly shown to us on October 13, 1917 during the Miracle of the Sun. We must use the means of obtaining grace so that we can return to the laws of God if we are in the state of mortal sin, or so that we can stay in the state of grace by avoiding sin that tempts mankind. Either way, we need God’s grace - sanctifying grace and actual grace. We obtain this by prayer, especially prayer to Our Lady and Our Lord Jesus Christ, and by worthy reception of the Sacraments. For all those who are baptized, I would urge them to make a good Sacramental Confession as soon as possible, if they have not done so in the last eight days.

Besides these spiritual means which are so important, what else do you suggest?

There is much we can do but even what I am about to suggest can be spiritualized. That is, it can be offered as penance.

Remember, the Angel said, “Penance, Penance, Penance.”

The first penance is to stop sinning and to avoid the near occasions of sin and to do some - at least little - mortifications. The second penance is to turn to God by prayer and the Sacraments as I explained briefly above. It is especially important that we put aside some time every day for prayer, particularly when this seems inconvenient or burdensome to us in our modern, hectic lives. The third penance is to work for God.

In spelling out the need to avoid sin, I have not elaborated on some necessary penance. The very first is to do our daily duty — do whatever it takes, while breaking no law of God, to meet the demands of whatever position God has placed us in life. In other words, we must fulfill our obligations to our state in life. This means to be a good mother, a good father, a good child at home, a good student, a good employee, a good employer. It means being honest and just and kind and charitable to those around us, our subjects, our superiors, our peers. And to avoid persons (those who encourage us to sin), places (hangouts, bars, etc., where we meet people who encourage us to sin) or things (magazines, movies, drugs, drinks, television programs) that will cause us to sin.

It is good to be reminded of these things that we tend to forget, but you mentioned also working for God in a specific way.

We can work to bring about the triumph of Our Lady, and work to bring about the avoidance of the chastisement seen in the Third Secret vision. All of us, no matter who we are, no matter how much time or how little time we have, can work for these great causes!

How is it possible for every man, woman, and child, anywhere, under any circumstances to work for these two goals?

Our work is an act of penance. Work offered to God is pleasing to Him. He will certainly consider it in judging us. But how can everyone work for this, you ask? It is easy.

First of all, everyone can offer up to God and Our Lady, each day with their “Morning Offering.” This would be as follows: “O God, through the hands of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in union with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, I offer Thee all my prayers, works, joys and sorrows this day for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, the conversion of sinners, world peace and the avoidance of the punishments which Thou justly threaten the world.”

Some would say that doesn’t seem much of a contribution.

There is much more. But before I explain further, don’t underestimate the importance of that Morning Offering, and especially of renewing it during the day. When we make a sacrifice, we should say, as Our Lady taught us at Fatima:“O my Jesus, it is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners and in reparation for sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer this sacrifice to Thee.”

“For Alms Delivereth from Death”

Besides this, we can work more directly for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Almost anyone can become a volunteer for promoting the full Fatima Message. And then you can work and sacrifice by giving alms for this cause. As St. Raphael the Archangel said:“... for alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting.” (Tobias 12:9)

By giving alms, what you are doing is taking part of the results of your daily work and giving them to worthy organizations which promote the Message of Fatima and true devotion to Our Lady and other good causes in the Church. Our Fatima apostolate turns our alms into rosaries, scapulars, leaflets, books, magazines on the Fatima message and are given to others to spiritually feed their minds and hearts.

By giving alms, one contributes to the salvation of souls, helping to avoid the punishment hanging over our heads and bringing about world peace, the conversion of Russia and the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Everyone, even a child, can give alms. Anyone who can’t, can at least offer their prayers and sacrifices like the children of Fatima did so heroically. They went without water and food; they wore a rope around their waist which irritated their skin, as penance; they accepted in good spirit, the unjust punishments and misunderstandings they suffered as a result of bearing Our Lady’s message to the world. We don’t all have to be as heroic as they were, but we can imitate them at least a little.

Some time back, you spoke of other things we can do. What can be done to get to know the rest of the Secret so that all mankind (or at least those who truly believe in Our Lady and who don’t just pay lip service to Her) can guide themselves by Her words. How can we find out actually what She said, especially since it appears the manuscript containing Her words has been lost?

Well there is much we can do besides our prayers, sacrifices, penances and almsgiving. There is much more to do.First of all, it is imperative that those people who are in positions of influence — bishops, priests, media people, diplomats, legislators, judges, and captains of commerce, industry, finance, etc. — be informed about the Secret and what we know of it, which clearly seems to be something more than the text of the Third Secret vision. Remember that we have never been told what Our Lady said after “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.” People can obtain information about the Secret from the books, pamphlets and leaflets that we publish, many of which are given away for free. There are also other sources of information. They can call the apostolate [1-800-263-8160], write us or e-mail us at www.fatima.org. Tell us how much time you are willing to spend and what you are willing to invest in a book, and we will send you literature to get you started.

Let the Experts Speak

Besides all of this, is there anything else people can do?

We can respectfully suggest that if in fact the original manuscript of the Secret has been lost — the one-page letter of 25 lines of text containing Our Lady’s words written down on or before January 9, 1944 — that the Pope should ask if a photo copy of the same has been preserved, and if such a copy does exist, he must demand it be produced immediately and published.

At the same time, Pope John Paul II should be asked to prepare, in the very near future, a new mission to Sister Lucy, with the appropriate persons and circumstances so as to get the full truth about the Secret from her before she dies. She is, after all, 93 years old. If Sister Lucy is still being kept behind a wall of silence, even though we are told that all has been revealed, then that would not be a good sign.

What do you mean by the appropriate people and circumstances?

Well it is clear from the statements of Cardinal Ratzinger and Msgr. Bertone that they are not Fatima experts. I explain this elsewhere. I think any Fatima scholar would not disagree with me on this.

We need priests, theologians and people who have a great grasp of the historical facts surrounding Fatima to be able to ask Sister Lucy questions so as to draw out the complete Secret. She still has it. But there is one more important condition that must be addressed.

What is that?

It is clear that Sister Lucy is not a theologian. She never claimed to be one. It is also clear that she has, as she should, a great respect for priests and bishops and it is also clear that out of respect for bishops and priests, especially those that appear more directly to represent the Pope, that she suspends her judgment — and if she clearly believes that holy obedience requires silence of her — even to the point of remaining silent even when it is a question of the certain truth being misrepresented in her presence. She may not know sometimes how to reconcile all the obligations of respect, obedience, and even the pious acts of religious nuns to the interior acceptance of other people’s opinions as if they were the voice of God because of the position they hold.

Thus if an Archbishop or Cardinal coming from the Vatican tells her that such and such is an interpretation of the Fatima Secret, or other part of the message, or tells her that it is the teaching of the Pope, then Sister Lucy may, in some cases, believe that she must conform not only her exterior attitude, silence, etc., but even her mind to that point of view.

It is crucial that reputable, competent theologians explain to her the distinctions she needs to make so that the opinions and prejudices of certain people around the Pope do not enter her mind in such a way that we do not get from her the whole Third Secret, unedited, complete, without spin, and exactly as Our Lady gave it.

From recent studies on this question it becomes more and more clear that this condition quite possibly is essential if a team of knowledgeable experts is going to get the whole Secret from Sister Lucy before she dies. Of course, Sister Lucy may be showing reserve because the people sent to her are so ignorant of the background on Fatima that she cannot explain the matter to them in the limited time they have.

Also to be kept in mind is that people like Sister Lucy, who have the charism of prophesy, are often equipped by God to be able to read people well. So if someone is sent to her who does not believe in Fatima, she may not bother to speak, since she would be bringing her pride of wisdom before witnesses.

Pray for the Holy Father to send important, holy, learned priests to interview Sister Lucy before she dies. Time is running out!


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